Saturday, October 3, 2009

Candide Discussion Part II

Assignment: Post comments to the following questions and reply to classmate responses. Check back at last week's discussion to see new posts.

What are the characters' views at the end of the novel? What does Candide mean when he says we should "cultivate our gardens"? What could the cultivation of Candide's garden symbolize and what is Voltaire's message?

How does Voltaire's use of black comedy contribute to the story? What if the novel were not comedic or morbid? What kind of effect would this have on the story? Would it be as effective in conveying its points?

20 comments:

  1. At the end of the novel Candide is no longer in love with Cunegonde but just marries her anyways to stay true to his word before. And in general none of them were happy with how life had turned out for themselves.
    I think by the "cultivate our gardens" it means that they shouldn't concern themselves with issues that they have no control over. But they do have a duty to provide for themselves which should be their priority.
    It could symbolize just going on with our own lives and only worrying about the betterment of our selves and not to worry about the state of the world around us.
    His use of black comedy gives a predictable pattern to the story. When things start to go in a better direction, there is immediately another setback. If it weren't so depressing(although still humorous) it wouldn't be able to portray the same mood. Without so many horrible moments he wouldn't be able to thoroughly make fun of the optimistic philosophies that are imprinted on the characters.

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  2. I found it funny that once Candide had found Cunegonde and lived the "normal" life, he was quite bored. His adventures and horrible encounters during his lifetime had kept him young and optimistic. Once they were settled on the farm, Martin stated, "Man was born to live either in a state of distracting inquietude or of lethargic disgust." once Candide had time to sit down and think about life and the world, he realized the world was full of "horrible evil." As for "cultivating their gardens," I was confused and still am by Candide's remark. I know cultivation, literally, is preparing crops in a garden, but figuratively I am pretty confused. I guess I could say that cultivation is to "teach or refine to be discriminative in taste or judgment." Since Voltaire is much more pessimistic now, he is willing to be discriminative, which agrees with Martin's statement. This makes me wonder who's philosophy was right all along - Pangloss' or Martin's, since Candide's opinion is the defining opinion in the book, and he used to approve of Pangloss' opinion, and now, that of Martin's.

    I think the use of comedy in this story has a huge role on how the reader percieves it. The use of comedy that Voltaire uses in this story, makes things seem more free-flowing and not as big of a deal. There is not as much shock value, and the readers of the book are more prone to understanding and justifying the work. Voltaire is seen as less of a pessimitic person and more optimistic because he takes Candide, and makes him more optimistic about everything too. This makes me wonder if Candide is the same personality as Voltaire, but in different character form. The use of dark humor in a story like this is a genious way to make things less controversial than they actually are. I'm not sure that the story would be as effective in conveying its points if it had not used black comedy, but it would definately convey his points in some way - in this case, unwanted realizations, not just humor. The story would not be taken as lightly, though, that's for sure.

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  3. I think by "cultivate our gardens" at the end of the story means that all the characters should broaden their minds to new topics and ideas, mainly for Candide. Every time he went somewhere new, Candide was so niave to the society and needed someone else there with him. If Candide knew better I think that he wouldn't have been so easily duped with everything he did.

    I think that if this story didn't have comedy to it the message wouldn't be the same. The story itself wouldn't be as popular as it is now. I think that the reason it is so important was because it criticized a lot, but not in an extremely harsh way, but in a way that everyone could understand and enjoy. The best way to correct yourself is to watch, learn, listen, and laugh at your mistakes.

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  4. The character's views are mostly changed from what they were at the beginning of the book. Except for Pangloss. They have seen the evils of the world, and are moving past them by culvtivating their gardens. I believe this phrase relates back to the Adam and Eve story, in the way they're trying to regrow the happiness they once had in the castle, their "Garden of Eden." That is what it could symbolize. And his message is that maybe we should try to regrow happiness.

    Voltaire's use of black comedy contributes to the story by getting his message across. Without the comedy and morbidity, the audience would not be as interested in his views.

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  5. The characters' view at the end is completely different from what they were in the beginning. Candide thought Cunegonde was ugly, Cacambo cursed his fate,and Pangloss still thinks that the world is wonderful and is the best but doesn't really believe it anymore. I also found it funny that they seemed really bored after their strange adventures through the world. "Cultivate Our Gardens" symbolizes the end of their trials and them just starting fresh. Candide is saying that they should now enjoy life.
    I agree with Jessica on how Voltaire uses black magic. Every time it seems that their problems was solved there was a new one. For example when Candide got a letter from Cunegonde saying that she was in France. This point in the story, I thought that it was finally over and he has finally found Cunegonde. Instead Candide and Martin got arrested.

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  6. At the end of the novel all of the characters end up unhappy. even thought they all were unhappy they still tried to keep their heads up and look for the best. i think that when candide says to cultivate their gardens he is referring to them taking time to figure out what they want for themselves in life. i also think that he wanted them to keep moving on and forget about the past.
    if voltaire didn't include the comedy the story would be taken to literal and it wouldnt be considered as a satire or a parody. it also helps voltaire to get his story out in a way that would be interesting and at the same time prove his point.

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  7. At the end of the novel Candide, Cunegonde still loves Candide but he has fallen out of love with her. This is because she is now ugly to him and he no longer has interest in her. I think that the only reason she wants to be with him still is because she knows that he will not treat her as her brother did. This was the total opposite from the beginning of the book. Pangloss is probably the only one with the same views but he has them because they are obligations. he tells Candide that he is a philosopher and he can not go back on his beliefs no matter what he has run into as far as tribulations and adversities go. I am not quite sure what Candide meant by "cultivating their gardens" but i figured that he just wanted to build or "grow" something he never had. What I mean by that is happiness. He wanted to stop going through such horrible times everywhere he turned so now he was settled and with the people that made him happy throughout the novel. I guess that it could symbolize the story of Adam and Eve because in the beginning they had what they needed at their fingertips and the foolish acts of Candide and Cunegonde ended in terror for them. Throughout the story they had to reap what they sewed and now it is time for them to now take care of themselves. This is like the Forbidden Fruit story because they knew they should not have been eating the fruit and since they did they had to suffer. They now had to enjoy the fruits of their own labor such as making their own food to survive off of, thus "cultivating their gardens". Voltaire's message is do not act ungrateful and foolishly to those that take care of you. Also do not disobey their direct orders when they provide for you. If you do you will suffer soon enough the consequences of your conduct or actions.

    Voltaire's use of black comedy contributes to the story because it keeps the reader interested to what will happen next. If this novel did not have such crazy voyages for Candide it would have gotten boring in the beginning of the book. If the novel was not a comedy it would not have been captivating. The stuff that happened in it can not be taken seriously because it is all outrageous and very unlikely. It would also make the reader skim right past the points Voltaire is trying to communicate or express.

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  8. At the end of the novel Candide, Cunegonde still loves Candide but he has fallen out of love with her. This is because she is now ugly to him and he no longer has interest in her. I think that the only reason she wants to be with him still is because she knows that he will not treat her as her brother did. This was the total opposite from the beginning of the book. Pangloss is probably the only one with the same views but he has them because they are obligations. he tells Candide that he is a philosopher and he can not go back on his beliefs no matter what he has run into as far as tribulations and adversities go. I am not quite sure what Candide meant by "cultivating their gardens" but i figured that he just wanted to build or "grow" something he never had. What I mean by that is happiness. He wanted to stop going through such horrible times everywhere he turned so now he was settled and with the people that made him happy throughout the novel. I guess that it could symbolize the story of Adam and Eve because in the beginning they had what they needed at their fingertips and the foolish acts of Candide and Cunegonde ended in terror for them. Throughout the story they had to reap what they sewed and now it is time for them to now take care of themselves. This is like the Forbidden Fruit story because they knew they should not have been eating the fruit and since they did they had to suffer. They now had to enjoy the fruits of their own labor such as making their own food to survive off of, thus "cultivating their gardens". Voltaire's message is do not act ungrateful and foolishly to those that take care of you. Also do not disobey their direct orders when they provide for you. If you do you will suffer soon enough the consequences of your conduct or actions.

    Voltaire's use of black comedy contributes to the story because it keeps the reader interested to what will happen next. If this novel did not have such crazy voyages for Candide it would have gotten boring in the beginning of the book. If the novel was not a comedy it would not have been captivating. The stuff that happened in it can not be taken seriously because it is all outrageous and very unlikely. It would also make the reader skim right past the points Voltaire is trying to communicate or express.

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  9. Almost every character's veiw in the book have been changed by the end. On page 85 it says "Pangloss owned that he had always suffered horribly, but as he had once asserted that everything went wonderfully well, he asserted it still, though he no longer believed it." This shows that even Pangloss, a man who never changed his opinion even at the worst of times, has had his mind changed, even though he doesn't show it. Most of the characters went from believing that life was good to believing that life is horrible and everything goes bad no matter what your doing. When Candide says "cultivate our gardens" he means that they should live their lives as it comes and be ready for whatever happens. Pangloss refers to the story of Adam and Eve by saying "for when man was first placed in the Garden of Eden, he was put there ut operaretur eum, that he might cultivate it; which shows that man was not born to be idle." He is saying that man was meant to always be working, to always be active in the world striving for the future and to be ready for whatever is ahead. Candide's remark could symbolize to just be ready for the future and not to obsess over it too much.

    Voltaire's use of black comedy was to keep the reader's interested in the story. All of the death keeps the audience wanting to know whats next, giving Voltaire the chance to get his ideas across when the reader is searching for answers. If the story wasn't as interesting then the audience would probably become inattentive and stop reading.

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  10. I think it's realistic that Candide didn't want Cunegonde by the end. He was a likeable character but obviously shallow,maybe not on purpose but from ignorance. In the end when Candide talks about Cultivating our gardens, he means that all the bad things and obstacles that they all went through are in the past and don't have a positive affect on how their lives should be led. By putting that stuff in the past he means to have a fruitful future.

    The black comedy of Voltaire in this novel is I think to keep the reader from getting depressed. He shows all these horrible things that happens to the characters and the horrible personalities of people, but by making it a comedy he prevents despair on the part of the reader, cause if it wasn't a comedy some people may give up on People.

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  11. By the end of the book i think almost all of the characters have changed their opinions since the beginning. Candide dosen't believe that Cunegonde is beautiful any longer but he still marries her. I think that Pangloss is the only character that has kept the same beliefs throughout the book. Even though he has been through such terrible situations he still believes that everything happens for a reason.
    By "cultivate our gardens" Candide means that what has happened in the past should remain in the past and that it should not get in the way of what could happen in the future.
    The cultivation of Candide's garden could represent that he is in control of what happens and he is not going to let the past hold him back.I think that Voltaire's message is to just move on and not let previous problems get you down.

    Voltaire's use of black comedy contributes to the story by keeping up the mood of it.Even through all the bad things that happen to the characters, Voltaire describes the situations in a way that makesa them seem better than they are.I think that if the novel were not comedic then I don't think it would enjoyed by as many people. Most people would not want to read a depressing story or at least I wouldn't. I think that this would affect the story because it would change the way it was interpreted by the readers. I don't think that it would be as effective in conveying its points because Voltaire mocks certain people in this book to bring out their faults and I don't think the point would be made as clear if Voltaire had written any differently.

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  12. well, I finally completed the reading and thought huh.. very interesting. Candide is drawn back into the idea that everything is for the best. when Candid says "cultivate our garden" I believe that he is refering to making this new life of settlement his own world. this being that any ideas from the outside world does not mean anything to him. Either that or he's thinking about making a family or just farming in general. Voltaire's use of black comedy in the story keeps up the pace of the book. I think this because the book was very fast paced and it had a flow from one situation to another. If the novel was not comedic it would not be as fast paced as it was. it'd be just another boring book. Without the use of comedy Voltaore's book would not get it's intended message across to the reader. Voltaire would become Rossaeu.

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  13. at the end of the novel everyone was bored. they were living the "peacful" life and everyone was like "... so... whats next" type of thing. I mean even when i was reading towards the end, i was like well... do something exciting! Make a big storm come and knock down their home and make them move!! or something towards that. cultivate our gardens as said by Candide was said after Pangloss was ranting about politics. i think it was meant to say like "hey, its not our buisness anymore.. we cant control it" type of thing.

    Voltaire's use of black comedy hooked you in. when you read it, you think of it as a story, unless you were told before hand that there were historical facts in them. similar to what others have said, the comedy was just to keep people hooked on the book. It starts out perfect then theres problem after problem.

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  14. At the end of the novel, it appears that everyone is unhappy. Some people may debate that Pangloss is the only person who's opinion wasn't changed, but I strongly disagree. Pangloss says himself, that he has indeed suffered, and that he no longer believes his philosophy, but only asserts it to others.
    As for Candide, he has finally achieved the life he thought he wanted - to be "normal" with Cunegonde. It's kind of ironic though, because settling down with cunegonde was nothing like he had imagined. Cunegonde turning dramatically ugly, and living on a boring farm, is definitely not what Candide had in mind. This is another obstacle for Candide. I think "cultivating the garden" represents all the obstacles Candide had and has overcome. It is also representing all the obstacles he will have to over come in the future.


    To be honest - i did not find Candide funny. It moved far too rapidly, and I know thats the point, however I did not find it enjoyable. Though I understand that things were meant to be funny, such as the long ridiculous names for people, and I understand what it is he's trying to make fun of, I just wasn't amused. So going through Candide, I was bored. Voltaire was still able to convey his points, but thats probably because during the reading, I knew I was looking for him to make points.

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  15. At the end of the novel, the characters' perspective and outlook on their lives and the human race had for the most part been altered greatly. Now that they had settled down and were living quiet lives, they found themselves bored and unhappy.
    Regarding the remark about "cultivating the gardens", I found myself very confused at this part of the book. Being the last line on the book, I knew it had some sort of significant meaning, but I was incapable of deciphering it. I read through it multiple times, trying to pick up what I had missed, but still could not understand it. The only thing I think that it could relate to would be something dealing with accepting the past, and working toward a new goal, but I'm really not sure.

    I think that the humor that is used in this book plays a very large role in the way it is perceived. In being satirical, it forces the reader to look past what is actually written, and determine the meaning of things on their own. It forces the reader to think about the text, rather than just read through it. If it were not intended to be humerus, it would be more likely to be taken literally, and if that were the case, it would not be effective in conveying its messages at all.

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  16. I like what Nicola said about how the quote at the end could be a reference back to the Adam and Eve story and that maybe Voltaire is suggesting that we try to "regrow" this original happiness. Joe I agree with what you said about why Voltaire used black humor. The humor needed to be present to offset the content of his message or the reader would be left in despair. Remember part of the purpose of writing satire is to encourage reform.

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  17. Kudos Katie and Matt for using textual evidence in your responses!

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  18. Savahna, I appreciate the honesty in your response. Do you think something is lost reading Candide today that audiences back then got?

    Nick, did reading other students' posts help you with the last line of the book?

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  19. Mrs. Libertucci,

    Not to seem rude, but I disagreed with all of the posts regarding the last line. Although I couldn't figure it out for myself, I didn't like the other ideas that were proposed.

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  20. Nick... consider this...do you think that it's ironic that the characters end in the garden instead of beginning in the garden like Adam and Eve? Are you, as a reader, satisfied with the novel's ending? Do you think Voltaire believes in his proposed solution in the novel's final lines?

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